Saturday, September 12, 2009

flying.hairless: MOSES was a fictitional character

rebuttal:ok lets begin,first of all,because you cant locate someones remains that existed in ancient times,its not evidence they didnt exist,for example,i cant locate remains of my ancestors ,doenst mean they didnt exist.it is this ilogical approach that hairless seems to take.its almost as absurd as claiming thousands of known historical personages didnt exist because we dont know where their remains are located.this  issue its more complex then simple.ok lets see what historians say.http://www.moses-egypt.net/book-series/moses_bibliography_en.asp#0  http://www.imperialethiopia.org/history1.htm  http://www.egyptologyonline.com/pi_ramesse.htm  We can divide the history of the site into three periods: pre-Hyksos, Hyksos and post-Hyksos. The Hyksos were a Semitic people from Syria-Palestine, who took up residence in the eastern Nile Delta and eventually ruled northern Egypt for some 108 years, ca. 1663-1555 BC (15th Dynasty).[1] Jacob and his family arrived in Egypt around 1880 BC, based on an Exodus date of ca. 1450 BC. That was in the pre-Hyksos period when the name of the town was Rowaty, "the door of the two roads" (Bietak 1996: 9,19 M. Bietak, Avaris and Piramesse: Archaeological Exploration in the Eastern Nile Delta, (London: The British Academy, 1986); "Der Friedhof in einem Palastgarten aus der Zeit des spten Mittleren Riches und andere Forschungsergebnisse aus dem stlichen Nildelta (Tell el-Daba 1984-1987)," Agypten und Levante 2 (1991a), pp. 47-109; "Egypt and Canaan During the Middle Bronze Age," Bulletin of the American Schools of Oriental Research, 281 (1991b), pp. 27-72; Avaris: The Capital of the Hyksos, (London: British Museum Press, 1996).A. Biran, "City of the Golden Calf," Bible and Spade, 5 (1976), pp. 22-27; "To the God Who is in Dan," in Temples and High Places in Biblical Times, A. Biran, editor, (Jerusalem: Hebrew Union College, 1981), pp. 142-51.H.L. Ginsberg, “Aramaic Letters,” in J.B. Pritchard, editor, Ancient Near Eastern Texts Relating to the Old Testament (Princeton: Princeton University Press, 1969), pp. 491-492.http://neros.lordbalto.com/ChapterThirteen.htm  Towards the end of the 17th dynasty, Ahmose I, the founder of the Eighteenth dynasty, captured Avaris just before the Hyksos were finally expelled from Egypt. A palace compound was constructed in the early 18th dynasty. It consisted partly of mudbricks from the Hyksos citadel and seems to have functioned as a royal residence. The palace area was settled up to the reign of Amenhotep III, or possibly up to the reign of Ramesses II.http://www.egyptologyonline.com/pi_ramesse.htmScience: The Return of the Golden Calfhttp://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,970843,00.htmlSir Alan Gardiner was one of the world's most distinguished Egyptologists.Egypt of the Pharaohs: An Introductionhttp://books.google.com/books?id=lzhBbsElbKAC&dq=A.+Gardiner,+Egypt+of+the+Pharaohs&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=--GrSqOeBYKwlAfUmay-Bg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4   http://www.britishmuseum.org/pdf/6c%20High%20society.pdf  http://archaeology.southern.edu/documents/stela.pdf http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/ReligionTheology/BiblicalStudies/OldTestamentHebrewBible/~~/dmlldz11c2EmY2k9OTc4MDE5NTE1NTQ2NA==\http://books.google.com/books?id=MjGcvf74z5MC&pg=PA305&lpg=PA305&dq=Kitchen,+Ancient+Orient+and+Old+Testament,&source=bl&ots=LjFlsZp5cK&sig=iU0N9XIeDZCr4T74waBX5HXNxEk&hl=en&ei=f-erSqHzLJW3lAfysOXRBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10#v=onepage&q=Kitchen%2C%20Ancient%20Orient%20and%20Old%20Testament%2C&f=falseIn 1991 a group led by Peter James published a book called Centuries of Darkness. Four years later British archaeologist David Rohl published A Test of Time,
marketed in America as Pharaohs and Kings.and concluded that several of the later dynasties ruled side by side. This meant that earlier dynasties were placed anywhere from one hundred to three hundred years further back than they should have been. The three hundred year ‘Dark Age’ which historians describe in Greece, Phoenicia, and other places, shrinks and even disappears.
The Pharaoh Shishak who invaded Jerusalem has been identified with Soshenk. But Soshenk never attacked Jerusalem but northern Israel! Another Pharaoh did attack Jerusalem. ..the famous Rameses II. In Egyptian he is Ra Me Shi Sha, the Shishak being a Hebrew nickname for ‘The Destroyer’. Rohl concluded that Shishak was Rameses, that the splendid late Canaanite period was the time of Solomon, that the period of the El Amarna letters was the time of Saul and David.
Rohl’s biggest discovery, though, was in finding the evidence for the Exodus in the Thirteenth Dynasty. His findings are summarized by John Fulton, a supporter of David Rohl:
‘Before Moses, the Bible records that the Israelites were enslaved by their Egyptian hosts (Exodus 1:8-14). In the Brooklyn Museum (p.276, fig. 310) resides a papyrus scroll numbered Brooklyn 35:1446 which was acquired in the late 19th century by Charles Wilbour. This dates to the reign of Sobekhotep III, the predecessor of Neferhotep I and so the pharaoh who reigned one generation before Moses. This papyrus is a decree by the pharaoh for a transfer of slaves. Of the 95 names of slaves mentioned in the letter, 50% are Semitic in origin. What is more, it lists the names of these slaves in the original Semitic language and then adds the Egyptian name each had been assigned, which is something the Bible records the Egyptians as doing, cf. Joseph’s name given to him by pharaoh (Genesis 41:45). Some of the Semitic names are biblical and include:- Menahem, Issachar, Asher, and Shiprah (cf. Exodus 1:15-21).That 50% of the names are Israelite means that there must have been avery large group of them in the Egyptian Delta at that time, corroborating the testimony of Exodus 1:7 which alludes to how numerous the Israelites became. The sceptics look for Israel in the Egypt of the Nineteenth Dynasty and remain sceptics, because the proof is in the Egypt of the Thirteenth Dynasty. The site of Avaris has been uncovered by the Austrian archaeologist Manfred Bietak in the land of Goshen underneath that of
the city of Ramesses. It provides plenty of proof, says Fulton, for Israel’s presence and sufferings in Egypt:‘The people who lived in Avaris were not Egyptian but Asiatic Palestinian or Syrian. The finds there included numerous pottery fragments of Palestinian origin. Several factors about the graves were particularly fascinating:- 65% of the burials were of children under 18 months of age, the normal for this period being 20-30%. Could this be due to the killing of the male Israelite children by the Egyptians, recorded in Exodus 1:22? A disproportionately high number of adult women as opposed to adult men are buried here, again pointing to the slaughter of male Israelite babies. There are large numbers of long-haired Asiatic sheep buried which indicate these people to be shepherds. Large numbers of weapons found in the male graves indicate the warlike nature of the people.’Moses or Mousos, meanwhile became a great general who invaded Nubia and Ethiopia. Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews, 2.10.1-2 tells the story. The Ethiopians had invaded Egypt and had practically overrun the country:‘The Egyptians, under this sad oppression, betook themselves to their oracles and prophecies; and when God had given them this counsel, to make use of Moses the Hebrew, and take his assistance, the king commanded his daughter to produce him, that he might be the general of their army ... So Moses ... cheerfully undertook the business’ and defeated the African invaders by marching through a snake-infested region and taking them by surprise: ‘When he had therefore proceeded thus on his journey, he came upon the Ethiopians before they expected him; and, joining battle with them, he beat them, and deprived them of the hopes they had of success against the Egyptians, and went on in overthrowing their cities, and indeed made a great slaughter of these Ethiopians.’ A monument in the British Museum tells of Khanferre or Khenephres invading Sudan and Ethiopia, the only Thirteenth Dynasty ruler to do so. Remains of an Egyptian government building with the Pharaoh’s statue has been found hundreds of miles south of known Egyptian territoy
Sobekhotep IV/Khenephres was the Pharaoh of the Oppression from whom Moses fled, about 1487 BC. The forty years Moses spent in Midian were likely to have been 1487-1447 BC. The Pharaoh of the Exodus was Dudimose. Fulton records that the Austrians found evidence both of God’s slaying of the firstborn and the sudden departure of Israel from Goshen:Manetho, the Egyptian historian wrote how Egypt collapsed in the reign of Dudimose:
‘Tutimaos: In his reign, for what cause I know not, a blast of God smote us; and unexpectedly, from the regions of the East, invaders of obscure race marched in confidence of victory against our land (Egypt). By main force they easily seized it without striking a blow and having overpowered the rulers of the land, they then burned our cities ruthlessly, razed to the ground the temples of the gods and treated all our natives with cruel hostility, massacring some and leading into slavery the wives and children of others.’
‘The continuing archaeological discoveries’ says Fulton, ‘here in the ancient city of Avaris mirror exactly the early Israelites revealed in the Old Testament. For two centuries no evidence was found for the Israelites when looking in the strata of the 19th Dynasty. Now that the chronologies have begun to be amended and the sojourn in Egypt placed in the 12th and 13th Dynasties, we have a wealth of archaeological evidence corroborating the Biblical account.’

so there is a definate connection between hebrews and egypt at different specific time periods,theres archeological evidence showing hebrew practices adopted from egypt transfered back and forth between the delta to sinai to ashkelon..you have egyptologists,archeologists,historians,scholars,who show and place moses not as a fictitional character but rather a man who did exist.its recorded also  thru accounts of different cultures tribes and empires.now the empirical evidence he truly existed based on remains?noone has so far shown or claimed to have located moses at elast not verifiable.again this isnt evidence he didnt exist.if i were to name a number of known generally accepted historical figures whose remains we cant locate,would sister hairless  then also claim they didnt exist?depends on the criteria,she doenst define what criteria would prove to her wich historical figures of ancient times existed or didnt exist.the problem with her is she has no grasp of history,if iw anted id ask her name me all roman greek persia,egyptian historians in their ancient period in historyand prove to me that they existed outside of linguistic evidence.

No comments:

Post a Comment